Derek Midgley is one of the great bagpipers of all time, a gifted arranger whose style has been imitated for over a century.

But he’s not the only one.

I recently caught up with Midgly to talk about bagpiping, the music industry, and what we might have to learn from the past.

This is Recode at its finest, with guests like host Kara Swisher, The Verge’s Kara Swain, and former CEO of social network Twitter Evan Williams, as well as a rotating cast of guests including musician and producer Nick Drake, musician and podcast host Matt Asprin, and comedian and podcaster Kevin Hart.

You can listen to the entire episode here.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.